Frequently Asked Questions
Thanks for browsing our pages. We do things a bit differently than other boat makers and we understand it can be a bit confusing. In an attempt to answer some of the most asked questions we have put this page together with some answers. But if your question isn't here, please feel free to email or call us.
Nice boats- but aren't they a lot of maintenance?
Ah yes, maintenance. In this age of disposable cameras, instant messenging, fast food and drive through car washes, we all have a notion that the venerable old wooden boat is too antiquated and too much work to own. The last thing we want is to be stuck repainting and re-varnishing a boat when we could be um, watching TV right? Well, it's a valid point and one that we have tried to address in a few ways and that we try to dispel a few myths of, too.
In order to explain the difference in maintenance with our boats versus other types we first have to explain the major differences in construction. Their are four major types of river dories being made today: Aluminum, wood framed, fiberglass and wood composite.
Aluminum boats are made from various thicknesses of mostly aircraft grade aluminum and are either welded or riveted together. As a general rule aluminum boats are very durable and strong. With it's high strength to weight ratio, aluminum can take tremendous abuse. Industrial fishing boats and boats which must take constant abuse inside and out have made aluminum the material of choice for those applications. From our point of view, aluminum has a few drawbacks for use in river dories on western rivers and non-industrial applications. One is that aluminum river dories can be quite heavy when compared to other boats. Aluminum also can transmit cold temperatures and sound very readily which can not only scare fish but can be a bit of a nuisance while fishing in a quiet setting. Aluminum does not slide very well over sharp rocks and so the bottom must be treated with something to make them less prone to sticking, usually an epoxy material which peels off over time and must be reapplied.
On to traditional framed wooden dories. These days most of the wooden dories on the rivers are kit boats made by a few manufacturers on the west coast. These are the similar designs to the very first river dories and in fact some of the designs are the very same as they were 40 years ago. These boats have stood the test of time and many are still going strong after twenty years or more. The biggest negative factor with kit boats is that they are truly a lot of maintenance. These boats are put together with plywood sides and frames which are screwed and glued together. Steps can be taken to seal the wood from water but by their very nature they have many joints which can be very hard to seal entirely and water will get into the joints and can lead to the paint and finishes lifting off prematurely. Now, in the last ten years or so some people have been trying to completely seal these boats with epoxy with mixed results. If every millimeter of joint is sealed with epoxy it is possible to hold out the water but in many cases water can still penetrate the epoxy encapsulation barrier and then it is very hard to get it out and instead it sits in the wood and can lead to rot. Typically, owners of these fine boats will spend a fair amount of time painting and varnishing every year, and possibly replacing rotted wood after a number of years.
Fiberglass boats have been around now for many years. Although the specific materials have changed over the years, the method remains the same. A specific mold is made into which is sprayed a gelcoat first (the shiny outside layer on most production fiberglass boats) and then fiberglass cloth in various forms or chopped strands of fiberglass is then applied over the gelcoat. Over the years people have tried with varying degrees of success using different core materials over which fiberglass is laid, such as balsa or foam. Some of the biggest problems with fiberglass boats stem from poor construction techniques. And these poor construction techniques stem from trying to cut corners, which is what fiberglass is all about. Fiberglass is the cheapest material from which to make a boat, and the ability to make multiple boats at a time is the reason their are so many of them not because it is the best material. In the lay-up process air bubbles may be trapped in the gelcoat or in the fiberglass lay-up itself. These air bubbles can lead to condensation of moisture in the bubble which can start to weaken and rot the glass. Yes that's right fiberglass can get weak and rot. And when your new fiberglass boat hits a rock it can break right through the gelcoat or crack it and craze it leaving an entrance for water.
Now, let's get rid of the notion of a maintenance free boat. Ever since the miracle of fiberglass and gel coats , boat manufacturers have tried to sell the public on the idea that wooden boats are bad and gel-coated fiberglass boats will last forever with out so much as washing them. The fact is that new age epoxies, gel coats and polyester or vinylester resins are just plain terrible at combating the effects of the sun. Your shiny new gelcoat will look chalky and dull after even a few weeks in constant sunlight. If you want to keep that shine you will have to diligently cover the boat and wash it off after each use. Another fact about gelcoats is that they aren't very hard. Gelcoats can and do scratch. A lot. Try running your new shiny boat through a narrow channel of alders and take a look at the scrapes. The bigger problem is that the bottom of your boat is also a gelcoat. And if branches can scratch your boat what are the big rocks going to do to it?
Here at Montana Boatbuilders besides making new boats we also operate as a repair facility. Every spring our parking lot is full of fiberglass boats waiting to get various things fixed on them. We have repaired every major brand of fiberglass river dory made. So we know from where we speak. The most common fiberglass boat repair we see is repair of the bottom. That soft gelcoat that is so cheap for the manufacturers to apply is also the first thing to hit the rocks on the river. And remember folks, these boats hit rocks every day. They must because it is in the job description of a driftboat. These rivers are rocky and fish live in the rocks. Other fiberglass repairs? Cracks in the hull, cracks in the transoms, gelcoat blisters, broken cheap hardware.
So where does that leave us?
Building a better mousetrap. We have seen the limitations of the mass produced boats and the high maintenance wood boats and we have come up with the best of both worlds, the wood composite river dory.
The boats Montana Boatbuilders are producing are what we believe to be the best combination of new technology and old style craftsmanship. We are using high strength marine epoxies and fiberglass to get rid of the wood frames of older wooden boats, and we are using fine quality wood to get rid of the cheap mass produced features of a full fiberglass boat. This gives several advantages. The bottoms of our boats will not chip or crack like fiberglass boats. Why? Because we use a combination of high strength Kevlar laid over a strong laminated bottom. This makes the bottom rigid, not flexible which can cause stress cracks in the fiberglass boats and lead to rot. It also makes the boat quiet in the water and warmer than fiberglass or aluminum in cold water. The last layer on the outside of our boats is a high strength polyurethane which will take triple the abuse of a gel coat with out so much as a superficial mark. The interior of our boats is a sprayed in material typically used as a truck bed liner and allows the inside to be cleaned out easily, take years of abuse, mud and dog claws and still be very "grippy" when wet. Our hulls are put together not with screws and frames but with epoxy and wood flour fillets lined with fiberglass strips and carefully applied to allow no open joints into which water can accumulate. The lack of frames then leaves us an open floor plan from which to custom fit each interior. The exterior of the wooden hull is then sheathed in a layer of fiberglass and epoxy and then spray painted with high quality marine paint to produce an auto body like finish which is very durable yet can be easily repaired unlike a gelcoat.
Yes, but what about the varnish?
The wood work on our boats is first sealed with clear penetrating epoxy sealer, a wood derived resin that penetrates the cellulose fibers and carries out oils and moisture with evaporating solvents. Then several layers of building clear epoxy are put on the wood before a two part varnish is spray applied to a thickness of several millimeters. The varnish we use is not your grandfathers hardware store varnish but rather a very strong, highly UV resistant varnish which is so strong it will take the abuse of stubbing out a cigar into the finish. This varnish will not peel off leaving exposed wood like older wooden boats. The maintenance cycles on a typically used boat are three to four years. And the actual method of redoing the varnish involves literally scuffing the finish with a fine scothbright pad and applying one to two coats one at a time without sanding. Folks, we are talking about one hour of scuffing at the most and a couple hours of brushing every few years. That is not a lot of maintenance. Compare this to not being able to redo your gelcoat on a glass boat and being stuck with a boat that looks worse and worse every year because of the poor materials. We'll take the few hours of elbow grease, instead.
Now look, we are not about to say that our boats are maintenance free. As with any nice object you must take care of it. It must be washed occasionally and covered from the sun and hail when stored for long periods of time. But the type of people who like our boats are typically the type to take car of their possessions. If you do not want to do this than we happily say please buy a mass produced boat and when that one wears out throw it away and buy another. If you want a boat to last a lifetime you must take care of it.
How much do they weigh?
Our boats are very lightweight compared to other manufacturers. Of course the weight depends on the options you choose. Our laminated white oak swivel seats add a few pounds as do the wooden hatches. Our 15' Freestone Guide model with plastic seats and hatches weighs between 280 and 290 lbs. Our sixteen foot boats are between 330 and 360 lbs. again depending on options. The Kingfisher with wooden seats and hatches is by far our heaviest boat at 395 lbs. These are dressed out boats, mind you, not our dry hull weight in the shop like other manufacturers will tell you. Despite claims of 250 lbs. by some Idaho fiberglass manufacturers, their actual dressed out weights, meaning with all the seats and dry boxes in a 15' boat, is 400lbs. Believe us folks, we have weighed each boat and we also flip them over in our shop daily to repair the cheap bottoms.
How do they row?
In short, our boats row like a dream. What did you think we would say? In all honesty, though we have modified and continue to modify our hull designs for a variety of conditions. Our basic rule of thumb is that river dories should safe, stable and maneuverable in fast turbulent water. This means that we put more importance on being able to turn the boat quickly than to row it in straight line. Some manufacturers will try and sell you on the fact that their boats track better than any others. Tracking is flat water term meaning how well the boat goes in a straight line. Tracking well is fine for canoes, speedboats, and crew boats. But the thing that makes a boat track well is waterline length compared to rocker. Rocker is the amount of curvature in the bottom of the hull. Less rocker and more waterline length means the boat will track better. Less means the boat will turn easier. We fall on the side of being more maneuverable rather than being able to row in a straight line better. We designs our fifteen foot hulls with a fair amount of rocker and almost no straight sections on the side of the hull this means that the boat will sit in a very swirly hydraulic and not be pushed around as much because their is less straight line in the water. The boat is literally almost like a disc in wetted surface. You can practically go sideways through big waves and not worry because it is so wide for its length. Now when time comes to row to the truck through frog water our boats will not be in the lead. But that doesn't worry us because while everyone else is fishing the middle of the river our boats are fishing the big fast holes where fish love to hide. Of course if you don't fish that way we can modify the boat easily to accommodate your methods. We have straight section hulls in 15 or 16' lengths for slower water or water where you don't need all that rocker. But because of the combination of lightweight materials and good hull designs, the professional guides who use our boats will tell you they row like a dream.
How long does it take to get one?
Our typical wait is about six months to a year for a custom boat. The larger more complex models take more time of course. These boats don't just jump out of the box. You know that or you wouldn't still be reading this far. Every inch of these boats is built by hand by several people. We only make about a dozen custom boats per year. All of the wood is carefully selected by hand before being made into boat parts. And there are literally hundreds of hours of sanding in the average boat to get that smoothness which leads to high shine. Add to that custom add ons and requests and a single boat may be in our shop for up to four months. Our philosophy is that quality takes time. You want a boat to last a lifetime, a few months wait shouldn't hurt.
info@montanaboatbuilders.com 26 Pine Meadow Road Livingston, MT 59047 Fax: 406.222.0866 Phone: 406.222.2791